Forum Activity for @Jim Greenberg

Bad post! The ratio should have said 1:1 Chocolate to nutmeats 1.25 hours. 2:1 chocolate to nutmeats 2.5 hours.

Standards do not exist but I see most panning at 2.5:1 chocolate to nutmeats and it takes time to build good layers with proper cooling.

New panners please note that tempering of the coating is unnecessary as tempering causes more problems than good in this process. Tempered chocolate is too viscous and does not coat well whereby untempered coating flow better and the glazing process provides the nice shine later. Many folks just pan and then powder coat - lots of options.

Jim

PS - my company goes by both Union Confectionery Machinery & National Equipment Corp.

The time is takes to 'pan' a batch under optimal conditions is as follows:

1) Nut meats and chocolate = 1.25 hour per grossing. If the final ratio of nut meats to chocolate is 1:1 = 1.25 hour. 2:1 = 2.5 hours etc. If the air flow is wrong, temp off and RH too high then it will take longer and the end result will be poor.

Jim

Thanks Colin for all the information, a lot to ponder. I've read your other thread as well. Interesting thoughts... Since I had written the thoughts off for such a long time I'm not sure anymore of where to start, or when to start, but at least now I have enough information on ways to start. :D

Hi, all. The Kitchen Aid Panning Attachment was, conceptually, a great idea. However, the pan is not situated at the correct angle and the bowl is not properly shaped.

We sell brand new pans in 12", 16" and 24" sizes that are fully self-contained in that they come with a base, drive, speed controller 0-36RPM,removablebowl, and optional blower for both hot and cold panning,removable polishing ribs and extra bowls if needed.

We have sold thousands of these pans around the world to retail confectioners, R & D labs, pharma labs and snack food companies. Comes with instructions, too, and my assistance as needed. I have been involved with panning for years and taught the National Confectioners Association Panning Class. Happy to help.

To view the pans please use this link:

Andy, sorry but that was Union Confectionery Machinery in New York.

Jim hangs out on this forum and has a heap of great advice. That can be invaluable. They have good notes to help you through the processes too.

Colin

Andy - the time depends on what you are panning. Some things like coffee beans have to be done slowly. Other thgings like hazlenuts can be done quickly. It depends on the size of the product, "flat sides" which induce "doubles" (like coffee beans) and temperature you can get down too. If you can do it nice and cold it will be much faster. Also how much chocolate you want to add.

It takes me at least four hours - sometimes six or so - to do 15Kg of coffee beans. I can do razz cherries (try them!) in a couple of hours. But then I am NOT what you'd call an expert. I'm a bit of a perfectionist and have taught myself. I am sure that others here can help a heap to make that better but at least this is an answer of sorts.

I am getting VERY excited about the "Cool Bot" to get low temperatures. Not especially costly and worth looking at.

Colin

Andy, I think it really depends what you need to do with it. I looked at this and eventually gave it away as being too small to be useful. As I see it, it's a hobbiest tool and probably quite fun. But I'd not think commercial at all except maybe to test ideas.

I eventually purchased a "no-name" 15Kg unit on that basis that it was cheap and of a size that I could actually use for some profit. It IS now too small for me but I have learned on it and am ready to move up and I can now retire it as a polishing pan so it was a good investment.

I looked at some units from National Equipment in the USA which looked good too. I nearly bought one but was able to obtain a lower price which although doubtless of less quality did the job to now. They have a couple of small options that may be helpful to consider.

Colin

Anyone hazard a guess at the time from start to finish?

Andy,

We have one and Dianne uses it often. The one issue is cooling like Edward mentioned. We too had gotten a number of requests and we cannot keep them in the shop. It's a good stop gap solution to see if they really want the product enough to warrant a bigger unit.

Pete

I have one, use it exclusively for panning hazelnuts--although it can be used for many other items. Maximum weight of "raw" (uncovered) hazels is around 1 kg, with the shell being around 6 mm thick. Really, it all depends on how thick you want the chocolate shell to be, there's only so much space in the bowl for the nuts to "grow", thicker shell = smaller amount of "raw" nuts to begin with.

You need a cool room (ambient temp of 13 celcius or lower) or an air-conditioner for panning chocolate items, although some have "cheated" by throwing in a hunk of dry ice, or stuffing the whole contraption in a fridge.

The hallway in my commercial bldg is just the right temperature in the winter months, I set the whole thing--K. Aid and device--on a trolley and wheel it into the hallway. In the summer months I do it in my kitchen, I have a cheapo air conditioner that I added a 4" dryer hose to, and can direct a flow of cold air into the bowl.

If you add to much chocolate into the bowl, the surface on your items will be "wrinkly". I like to fill a large squeeze bottle with couvertute and squeeze just enough choc, into the bowl to gt the items wet, then tumble around for a minute or two, direct some cold air in, tumble a bit more, add more choc., etc. etc. etc.

Glazing is lost on me. I tried with gum arabic glazes, but didn't have much success. High glosses with gum arabic is dependant on the cocoa butter content of the chocolate. I hate cheap chocolate so the glazes don't work well with my regular 70% couverture, There are commercial glazes, but I don't know of any sources to get small quantities, and they contain many "funny" ingredients. I finish off my hazels with cocoa powder.

Cleaning the bowl can be easy or hard, all depending on how you look at things. I run the heat gun around the outside of the bowl for a minute or two--or toss it in the oven, and then remove all the chocolate and cocoa powder residue with a plastic scraper. I re-use this on my next batch for the first coating--the cocoa pwdr helps a bit to make the first coat stick. Or you could try to wash the whole thing in the sink and wash about a kilo of choc. down the drain and plug up the pipes.

To be completely up front about this, I do not have what I consider "experience" with this- I saw this panning attachment used once in a class I took. It seemed very handy but you needed to go relatively slowly - adding small amounts of chocolate at a time until an adequate coating is achieved.It seemed to do a good-sized quantity at a time though. I thought about buying the attachment but the last time I checked it was about $500. Not sure what you mean about requirements - other than a Kitchen Aid mixer... Limitations - fairly noisy, slowing going. Now that I think about it I am not sure what cleaning is involved say between batches with different chocolates or different types of nuts (glazed, plain...)

I've looked a lot into panning, and found it to be really too much of a burden for us. Yet I continue to be asked for panned items. I've seen that silly attachment that is sold to make your Kitchen Aid a panner and have written it off time and time again as a joke.

After reading another person panning and I saw a K. Aid attachment mentioned, I thought I should stop thinking about it being a myth and see what you all thought.

1. Does it work?
2. What are the requirements?
3. What are the limitations?

I'm experienced in some wonderful matches to whisky. The complexities of both result in some elevating experiences. I've tried (red) wines, but often found the origine chocolate to strong, it pushed away the wine, even bold argentinian ones. Whisky has more power to make bright balances.

Here's our latest event post: http://www.choqoa.com/blog/2012/07/our-second-whisky-chocolate-tasting-with-anverness/

Soon I'll be trying pairings with cheese as well.

Last week I really enjoyed Askinosie's Davao Dark with Fuji apples, really good combo!

My other fav combo is to have a hot chocolate with any meal or food that has chilli in it. I am not a big fan of putting chilli in my chocolate or in a hot chocolate but alongside is great!

Dear Clay,

As usual, when I read your posts, I keep on thinking "man, this guy's passion is waybeyondmy pay grade." Justamazedat the level of preparation you go to entertain your guests: A HOST to the fullest meaning of the word!.

Your choice of chocolate is simple and superb at the same time. If I have it my way, I also choose a 75% dark from Ecuador with my all time favorite wine which will always be a well cantered Opus One. On yourdiscerningchoice of bresaola over prociutto which I also find fatty (still delicious), have you tried Jamon de Jabubo? Guaranteed you will be hooked for life!

By the way, the other day, I was feeling "peckish" and fooling around with some dark chocolate and a little saffron (goes a long way).Quite interesting and looking for that third "ingrdient" to take me to the next level... and maybe an invite to one of your parties. I'll let you know when I find it.

Thank you for sharing your experiences and yourknowledge.

Regards,

Ramon

Ramon -

This is a very interesting question and one I work on quite a lot when I put together my "Sophisticated Pairings" events. I did one last weekend and here are some of the ingredients and highlights:

I used four chocolates - Felchlin Criolait (33% milk made with beans from the Lake Maracaibo region of Venezuela) and three Rancho San Jacinto (Ecuador) -- 55, 65, and 100%. I made a fondue-like melted chocolate from the Criolait and the 100% with half-and-half that I used because it's just easier to work with and I cut the sweetness of the milk chocolate with the 100%.

There were going to be three wines to drink but the shop did not deliver one of them, so we had only two: a Washington State Gewrztraminer (Chateau St Michelle, both 2009 and 2010) and a California Pinot Noir (2010 Mark West). The wine that did not make it was a Prosecco - which is my all-around favorite wine for pairing with chocolates of all kinds. I prefer it over most Champagnes because it tends to have a softer bubble structure (meshes with the chocolate), and also tends to be less acidic and alcoholic-tasting than most champagnes. Proseccos are also generally much less expensive.

I likeGewrztraminers that are on the dry side (they do exist) and that have a mild effervescence. This particularGewrz comes as a surprise to people who reflexively ask for Chardonnay or Pinot Grigio - both of which I find more problematic for general pairing. I also tend to stay away from acidic whites and in general find it easier to pair whites with dark chocolates. The Pinot is also one I use a lot because it's an "easy drinking" wine. It doesn't demand any particular attention by having too much of any particular varietal character. Thus, it goes with many things. Reds with lots of varietal nuance (and/or that need plenty of time open before really being drinkable) don't lend themselves well to impromptu pairing, I have found. They require a lot more thought to make "work".

The event format was a la minute: I have lots of different ingredients and I prepare small bites to order in addition to combinations that I create based on experience and knowledge of the ingredients I've selected.

One of those combinations is a variation on a Japanese hand roll (temaki) using bresaola (very lean air-cured beef) as the wrapper instead of rice and seaweed. Inside are arugula, herbed goat cheese, and a dollop of the melted chocolate.

Another combination was a rosemary cheese cracker on top of which was a thin shmear of the melted chocolate, cheese aged in cognac (from Sartori), dried apricot poached in simple syrup, curry-flavored salt, and a candied pecan.

As you can tell, I like complex layering of flavors and textures. And people love being challenged by them - in this event format they are open to new ideas for flavor combination and I engage them to push them past the edge of their comfort zone and keep an open mind.

I had one other cheese for the day (for a total of three), a four-year aged Gouda, so I had plenty of variety there. In addition I had:

a good aged balsamic vinegar
a very good olive oil
smoked pink salt
fleur de sel (from a small harvester in Oregon)
poached figs (simple syrup, same as the apricots)
marcona almonds (in oil, with rosemary - phenomenal with the fig)
an Italian herbed sea salt with sage, rosemary, black pepper, and garlic
cherry wood smoked soy sauce
Granny Smith apple (matchsticks)
sun dried tomato (chiffonade)

One of the memorable combinations I made up for a vegetarian guest was to put a dash of balsamic vinegar into a Chinese-style soup spoon and on top of that layer the apple matchsticks, sun dried tomato chiffonade, olive oil, and the smoked soy sauce with a dusting of 100% chocolate flakes.

Personally, I have found that bresaola works and prosciutto does not. In part, that's because of the high fat content in the prosciutto, which results in an unpleasant texture when paired with the chocolate. The bresaola is extremely lean which is the reason it works better (in my experience) in pairing.

Furthermore, I have found that it's more important to have a good taste memory than it is to be a supertaster. Having a good taste memory enables me to "taste" flavor combinations in my head before I put them together for a guest, and it's that skill that turns out to be most valuable when working on pairings.

As we go through life's various sensory taste stages, I am trying to learn from other people's experiences. On average, a child's taste and flavor perceptions are not as mature as an adult. Although, my five year old son, who actually eats almost everything we put in front of him, as most kids, will naturally gear towards sweets and basic flavors such as chocolate, apple juice, chicken, etc. As we grow older, the sense of smell and vision help our taste buds become more developed and adventurous.

We are all different and like many different things. What I might consider spectacular and unique, my wife and children may dismiss as detestable! I have had the good fortune of sampling and experiencing many flavorful foods which yielded a broad spectrum of satisfaction levels. I consider and brag myself of being a chocolate purist. A simple single origin dark chocolate will always be my primary source for happiness fuel. But every now and then, more often then than now I like to find the perfect compliment to great chocolate. I have come to appreciate parings with red wine, peanuts, raspberries, chilly, mint, sea salt, etc. In my case, these are examples of matching two foods that compliment each other superbly. Among all things tried, nothing excites and revolts my taste and senses like the mix of chocolate and passion fruit!

Which brings me to my query in The Chocolate Life: What pairing with chocolate gives you that ultimate taste HIGH?

I've done it a lot. If I'm working with one type of chocolate (milk or white especially, since I don't run those as much), I'll try to get as many molds lined as possible. After they have set, I wrap each one in plastic wrap to keep out dust, and store them in bins I use for the molds. I've had no trouble with them at all. And, I don't have a problem backing the dark chocolate with milk or vice versa. It saves time and who's gonna notice a thin layer on the bottom?

There's no reason at all you can't do this. I make lots of molds at once, use what I need and store the rest for later. You need to make sure to keep the filled molds cool and dry, keep pests/rodents out as well as dust. I will often loosely wrap them in plastic wrap once they are totally cooled and set. I store them in a cool dark room (that was intended as a wine storage area). I've never had an issue using a mold like this at a later date.

BTW, there are no stupid questions here. We all started at the beginning of the learning process with chocolate. It just nice to have a place to go to seek answers.

This is probably a stupid question but I thought I'd run it by you experts anyway!

Is there any reason why you couldn't fill multiple molds at one 'sitting'? I mean, assuming you're willing to use the same chocolate could you fill - i.e to create the initial outer shell - scores of different molds in one go? Then you could just reach for them as and when you need them, which presumably could save some time and effort further down the line. Surely better to blitz the issue in one big go than do the odd few molds here and there? You could store the molds as you would empty ones, perhaps with some parchment paper in between. There would be no shelf life questions as it's only chocolate (so no water activity issues) and if stored correctly I can't see why you couldn't do it and then not have to mold (beyond backing them when needed) for months.

Any thoughts?

is it expensive? we are experimenting with sugar-free chocolate, using a beet-based sweetener, but coconut sugar sounds great

Hi Cristine,

Have you tried using coconut sugar it has a Glycemic index of 35 has the texture and taste of raw sugar. We are now using them for our dark chocolates

Ernesto

Hello everyone..

I was wonerding if anyone can help me and list some ideas of sugar free inclusions for diabetic people.

I already bought chocolate for tempering that has been substitued with sugar substitute for diabetic people. But what can I include in the bombons? ganache with what? and if I do sugar free chocolate clusters, could the inlusion be almonds or any other kind of nuts? is that suitable? what else is? raisins? cranberry seeds? fruit purees?

thanx.

Hello!

For my chocolate I use cocoa beans from Venezuela, and I would like to try to make chocolate with Ecuadorian cocoa beans. Have you ever tried to roast Ecuadorian cocoa beans? The taste of the raw beans is not acidI think I will try to roast them at low temperatures ( 260F-280F).

What do you think?

Thank you in advance!

Dumb question-what's the Savage??

Thanks for your input!! That's what I'm curious of-Since I'm such a newbie I want to get decent stuff but not have to take out a 2nd morgage on my house for what's currently a hobby (Yes-I'd love to take it farther but I have to start somewhere! )

I was asked to run a beta version several years ago. At the time, I owned a Hilliard 80# and an ACMC. The chocolate dude is an ok machine. They didn't use it as a melter, only a temperer. I made several suggestions, and am not sure if they used any of them. I suggested a lid, and either finger holds cut in the sides or pull handles installed so you could grab it and move when you needed to. I think it is better for hand dipping than for molds. It is just a knock-off of the Hilliard design once their patent ran out. I think it would do the same job as a Rev or ACMC. I just prefer the Savage better.

HA! i'm sure I won't have time to deal with it until at least then!! I'd love to find out what you want for it and things! I'll email you!

Yeah, I plan on buying something in August. Not sure if that is too long to wait, but I would give you first dibs if you were still interested. You can e-mail me at jenny@jbchocolatier.com so I have your info to contact you when I am ready to sell it.

I appreciate it! When you upgrade are you looking to sell your used ACMC by chance?

I was in the same boat as you when I began. I started with the REV2 and quickly outgrew it. I liked the machine and had no problems with it, but it was super noisy. That is a problem as I have 3 small children. I upgraded to the ACMC a couple years ago. It holds more chocolate and is not as noisy. It is still a bit loud, but not as bad as the REV2. I have outgrown the ACMC now as well and I am looking to upgrade again. Sorry I can't help you with the chocolatedude temperer. Just thought I would give you my experience with the other 2 you mentioned.

I am a new chocolate re-melter I have successfully tempered
chocolate using the heat-cool/seed-heat method, but I have young kids so having
uninterrupted time to do it right is not something I normally have. Due to that,
I was looking at different small scaletempering machines to give me more leeway. I was
leaning away from the chocovisions because the reviews were really mixed and leaning toward not to positive. I saw good reviews for the ACMC but it's a bit spendy for a newbie/hobbiest.

Has anyone had any experience with the Chocolatedude's machine? It claims it works like the
ACMC but is much more affordable. The only thing I found was a few old discussions
from to 2009 but I am assuming he's improved since then? Anyone have any idea??
http://chocolatedude.net/
Any input is helpful!! Thanks!!

Yes I have been in discussion with Colin for a few years.

We do not build new sprayers we sell them as brokers. Can you send me literature on yours and also advise if yours can supply pans from 16" diameter up to 42"?

Thanks,

Jim

Hi Jim, the enquiry was 2 years old but I like your passion

btw- we use airless and have a heated handheld version. We use a smaller and very different technology to yours which might compliment your product portfolio.

Colin - you know you can email me anytime

Jim at unionmachinery dot com

The sprayer is not the answer. Colin.

Here is a greattrick - get a wheel type machine like a JKV and cut a small piece of PVC pipe on a bias - 45 degree angle - and then rig the PVC into the mouth of the pan and let the wheel feed into it. The pipe should be 1" ID. You can walk away and let the chocolate flow freely. Now, that said, you must have proper air conditions as follows:

RH = 50% or <

Air Temp - 60F degrees is optimal

Air Flow - for a pan your size 100 CFM will work

If you deliver the air too cold or too fast the chocolate will set up too quickly causing poor flow. If you deliver an inadequate supply of air or the air is too warm you will get doubles and triples all day long.

Jim

Also - you need 80 PSI to atomize a fat-based material such as chocolate so the viscosity must be held at a constant (which is determined by fat content and usage temp).

Jim

If the spray gun and the head are not jacketed for warm water flow then the gun will NOT work.

The tube, head and any connections must have 105-108F water running constantly to avoid crystallization. Remember you do not want to use tempered chocolate when panning or you will never achieve the yield and coverage. By heating the spray gun you insure a proper delivery temp.

Jim Greenberg, President
Union Confectionery Machinery Company

Hi Jeremy

To answer your questions- most guns are paint guns... i) they cool the chocolate down quickly... and the beta crystals form much quicker in smaller, cooler areas like nozzles and springs etc. causing blockages ii) Rarely do they use food grade materials (plastics / metals etc.).

We have a few food spray guns that you can check out for using with chocolate- one with heating & insulation. Here is a video of the hotCHOC heated chocolate sprayer.

Or you can stick with a air brush and hair dryer if you are working for very short periods- sometimes inconvenience but gives a nice shine.

Hi Colin,

I replied to you on the other thread- but yes, the material flow can be slowed right down to a minimum by using the food gun's power control knob.

Krebs Switzerland Electric Food Spray Guns

I would urgently like to know if the Krebs has a substantial air flow please? I am doing very light products (freeze dried fruit) and as they are so light I need as small an air plow as I can get.

Any thoughts please? I'm in a bind and need to purchase a gun as soon as possible.

Thanks!

Hi all, our electric spray guns are the only food-approved ones available and are good for liquid chocolate and other materials such as jam, marinades etc. There are different nozzle sizes depending on the viscosity of liquid being applied, and the surface are requiring covering.

Further info and Youtube demo videos on our website via this link and we look forward to helping your requirements.

Thanks for both of those bits of info Jim. At present the air flow faces into the fall but I shall change that. I am using a domestic fan so the CFM is anyone's guess. There must be a flow meter I can purchase.

My email is colin dot green at captaintaincoffee dot com dot au and I'll be very interested in you spray system.

Thanks!

Colin